Geraldine, how long have you worked in the aviation industry?

“I’ve worked in the aviation industry for just over twenty-one years.”

How did you get into the industry?

“My background is in chemistry and when I returned to work as a newly single mother, I wanted a brief change from the fume cupboard. I thought a couple of years learning new skills would be interesting before I returned to science.”

What is it about working in the aviation industry that appeals to you?

“The fact that those two years morphed into more than two decades demonstrates how much I love this industry. The most exciting aspects for me are that things are continually evolving and developing, particularly in the area I’m passionate about – accessibility.

When I first started at Virgin, the word ‘accessibility’ was hardly used and the industry used to talk about disability and ‘handicapped’ lavatories or seats. Thankfully things have evolved since those days and now accessibility is more firmly embedded in the industry and in people’s attitudes.

“The language and attitude in the workplace have improved immensely over the decades.”

Geraldine Lundy

For me, I hugely relish the challenge of producing the best possible outcome for all stakeholders concerned – be they our passengers, employees or the particular company we work for, as well as airports, third party providers, aircraft manufacturers, seat manufacturers, industry bodies and regulators. Sometimes it’s not possible to achieve everything but there is great satisfaction in doing the best you can and striking a suitable compromise.

Also, it’s important to note that life in aviation is never boring. You may have a game plan for your working day or week but it’s always interesting to review what actually happened. Having to adapt on a daily and sometimes hourly basis can be exhausting but makes for an interesting working environment.”

As a woman, how do you find working in such a male-dominated industry?

“I enjoy it and it has changed dramatically over the years, although there are still aspects that could be improved. I love the mix of ideas and opinions you get from working with colleagues of all genders and gender identifications.”

Have you encountered any gender discrimination in your career?

“Yes, at the start of my career I discovered I was doing a comparable job to a male colleague for considerably less remuneration. I took it further internally but wasn’t listened to. I think the people involved initially thought that if they stalled, I wouldn’t pursue the issue.

However, when I feel I am in the right about something I do like to see things through to the end, so I gathered all the supporting evidence and escalated things through the company. Fortunately, it came to the attention of a senior female manager who resolved the situation before I had to take things externally. I know this situation wouldn’t happen today.

Thankfully, the language and attitude in the workplace have improved immensely over the decades. I am not aware now of any of the derogatory comments I and my female colleagues used to hear many years ago.”

As a female senior leader, why do you think it’s important for companies to address the gender gap?

“I believe it is vital for any company or organisation to be truly inclusive. It’s the right thing to do within society but also the right thing to do for your business. If you are truly inclusive (by which I mean attempting to address all gaps – age, gender and gender identity, ethnicity, employees with differing accessibility requirements etc in all areas – pay, attitude, career opportunities, learning opportunities, etc/) then you’ll have a happier workforce with a wider skill set.

If you have more engaged employees your business will tend to thrive (assuming your business model isn’t flawed!).”

What do you believe has been the key to your success?

“I like to make a positive impact and strive to do a good job whatever I take on. I also like to see things through to completion. If I encounter an obstacle, I like to explore whether there is another way to overcome it. I’ll also try to be as polite as possible whatever I’m doing.”

What characteristics do you believe women need to survive in the aviation industry?

“I hope it’s not a case of survival these days. I hope, instead, it’s more a case of opportunities to achieve and flourish. Also, I’m not sure it’s any different to most other industries these days – work hard, be prepared to be flexible and be honest.”

In your opinion, what is the biggest obstacle to women succeeding in the workplace?

“I think for most people, whatever gender or background, the biggest obstacle will be themselves. Firstly, do they know themselves well enough to be in the right job for them for the right reasons? Also, what is their definition of success – is it money, level of management, number of direct reports or job satisfaction, for example? And then, do they have the belief in themselves to pursue whatever they want to do?”

What would you say has been your career highlight to date?

“I’ve been lucky enough to have so many it’s hard to choose! On a customer level, I love the fact that we’ve enabled so many people to travel when others have said no. This has opened the world up for some, and for others, it has given them treasured memories to cherish when their loved ones are no longer alive.

On a company level, to have been chosen to fly the Invictus team to Florida was a great accolade for everyone who works at Virgin Atlantic.

I also recently acted as Master of Ceremonies at the inaugural IATA Global Accessibility Symposium, which was a wonderful personal highlight. It was a great privilege to have been asked to do this and fantastic to see how far the concept of accessible aviation has come.

I feel so proud to have been one of the group of people who have been raising awareness of this around the world so much so that our industry body has now got this firmly on its agenda.”

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

“The best indicator of someone’s future behaviour is their past behaviour.”

What advice would you give to female professionals interested in a career in aviation?

“Just go for it. There is such a huge variety of roles and opportunities out there for the taking. Most companies encourage mobility and you will have the ability to develop your career and find the role that you enjoy most. Oh and remember, airlines are 24/7 365 days a year – you will work hard, so ensure you have a toolkit of resilient support.”

What do you believe is the biggest challenge facing the aviation industry?

“With so many agencies declaring a climate emergency and many public demonstrations against climate change, there is a lot of negative press concerning aviation’s contribution to greenhouse emissions. Many people are choosing not to fly and some governments may consider restricting air travel growth or increasing aviation taxes. Some countries have allegedly experienced a decrease in passenger numbers. It will be interesting to see how this situation develops. At the moment, I’m uncertain of the impact it will have.

Meanwhile, I believe there are many positive steps the industry can take in line with IATA’s policy suggestions for climate change. IATA has outlined a set of ambitious targets to mitigate CO2 emissions from air transport, including an average improvement in fuel efficiency of 1.5% per year to 2020; a cap on net aviation CO2 emissions from 2020; and a reduction in net aviation emissions of 50% b 2050, relative to 2005 levels.

“Life in aviation is never boring.”

Geraldine Lundy

This multi-faceted approach is underpinned by a four-pillar strategy, demonstrating IATA’s commitment to be part of the solution. More information can be found here.

I also think it is important to get the positive messages out regarding what the industry contributes to the world – jobs, tourism, economic growth, medical treatment, time-critical transportation (organs), world trade to name a few.

Broadening this out, I think the industry could do more to champion the benefits it brings and what initiatives they are working on at every level – inclusion, accessibility, sustainability, responsibility. This could mitigate some of the negative attention.”

What do you believe has been the biggest development in air travel over the past 25 years?

“I’m biased but today, more and more people with disabilities have access to air travel in a safer and more comfortable way than they had 25 years ago. This has been facilitated by improvements within the industry and the raft of accessibility legislation that has been introduced in the past 25 years protecting the rights of people with disabilities.”

Who has been your biggest advocate/mentor in the workplace and why?

“A lady called Gilly Golesworthy. Gilly is an independent advisor to the aviation industry focusing on accessibility. She has taught me (and others) over the years to move away from scheduling/managing disabled passengers to assisting/facilitating customers with disabilities. It’s a subtle mind shift which delivers a huge impact in attitude and approaches to what we need to do in this area.”

About Geraldine Lundy

Geraldine Lundy has accumulated more than 20 years experience as part of the Medical Services team at Virgin Atlantic; seven of which she has had the privilege to be the airline’s Passenger Accessibility Manager – championing universal design throughout the passenger experience.

Her role at Virgin had two key foci – to enable a customer with a disability to have a safe and comfortable flight and to ensure that the airline is compliant with all disability-related aviation regulations/legislation.

Passionate about accessibility, in August 2019, she launched the Accessible Travel Consultancy, to provide expert advice to companies and people with disabilities to facilitate and enhance accessible travel across the aviation industry and beyond. Geraldine continues to work with Virgin Atlantic in a consultative role and sits on a variety of industry bodies working to improve access to aviation.

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The Aircraft Interiors Expo (AIX) team sat down with Jutta Abulawi, Professor for Systems Engineering and CAD at the Hamburg University of Applied Sciences, as part of our  Women in the Aviation series.

This series of interviews aims to shine a spotlight on notable women in the industry and the diverse career opportunities in the sector.

For AIX’s Women in Aviation series, we sat down with Jutta Abulaw,  Professor for Systems Engineering and CAD at the Hamburg University of Applied Sciences. We spoke about she has encountered and overcome prejudice throughout her career. And she says that her passion, resilience, confidence and empathy have been key to her success.

Here she tells us how she’s done it.

Jutta, How long have you worked in the aviation industry?

“My first job after graduation was in the aviation industry, back in 1988. I started my career with Airbus Operations – then still called Messerschmidt Bölkow Blohm. At that time the wide-body, commercial aircraft family A330/A340 were being developed. I was part of a small team based in Hamburg, and we prepared the documents describing the new aircraft for potential customers. I was responsible for four ATA chapters, so I had a good overview of the aircraft as a whole.

I only worked there for nine months because I soon realised that it would be more interesting to conceive and design technical solutions rather than gathering all the information from various departments and preparing documentation. At that time there were no suitable jobs available at Airbus, so I left to work as a mechatronics system designer with a small company in the special machine industry.

I was sorry to leave the aviation industry because aircraft are fascinating, complex systems with many design constraints, but I was much better paid and had a more interesting job with much more responsibility.

“Aviation has always attracted women because most jobs need brains rather than muscle.”

Jutta Abulawi

After 12 years with the machine tool company, I returned to academia in 2001 to work at the University of Applied Sciences Hamburg – in the Department of Automotive and Aeronautical Engineering. To begin with, I was more involved in projects in automotive engineering and wrote my PhD thesis in cooperation with automotive companies.

When I qualified as a junior professor, I started to teach in both automotive engineering and aeronautical engineering degree programmes. I had never given up my contacts at Airbus, so it was relatively easy for me to establish a good cooperation with the Cabin & Cargo Engineering Department at Airbus for my design classes.

Since I became a full professor in 2013, I have collaborated with Airbus and Lufthansa Technik and several engineering service providers on teaching and research projects. I enjoy these collaborations very much, particularly because they allow me to participate in interesting projects focused on solving challenges in aircraft design, manufacturing and maintenance.”

How did you get into the industry?

“I was fascinated by the complexity of large, commercial aircraft and the enormous number of people involved in their development. I was also keen to work in an international environment since I spoke English and French very well in addition to my mother tongue German.

“The civil aviation industry is working hard to close the gender gap and increase diversity.”

Jutta Abulawi

My decision to become an engineer and to work in the aviation industry was influenced by my father who himself was an electrical engineer. As he worked as a consultant for safety at work in several industries including aviation, he encouraged me to study engineering.”

What is it about working in the aviation industry that appeals to you?

“It is the precision and safety-oriented mindset of everybody involved and the excitement of the complexity of large aircraft and their life-cycle processes.”

As a woman, how do you find working in such a male-dominated industry?

“It was very hard back in the last century. Now it is still not easy, but much better. In the 1980s it was difficult for young women in engineering to find jobs with a lot of responsibility because there were still many prejudices against women in aeronautical engineering. The industry was dominated by male leaders, many of whom were very conservative and didn’t trust women to be able to master technical challenges or solve complex problems.

Fortunately, the situation has changed considerably, and most companies in the aeronautical industry are actively seeking to increase the number of women in engineering because they recognise that diversity in teams is needed to address the challenges of complex, global engineering projects.

However, the majority of engineers are still male and probably will always be. Additionally, many women have a different approach to solving engineering problems as they want to understand designs and systems before they get their hands on them or try them out.

This is often misunderstood as a kind of hesitation or reluctance, particularly when these women compete with males who are happy to take risks and prefer to learn through experience rather than analysis.

(Of course, not all male engineers are like this and there are women who are happy to try things first before analysing/understanding them.)

As children, boys tend to receive more toys which support this investigative, experimental approach to understanding technical subjects. Girls are more often encouraged to read and create beautiful paintings/sculptures, make music, get involved in roleplay or theatre, rather than building technical structures or playing with technical gadgets such as model railways, robots or remote-control cars. How children are raised is reflected in the percentages of male and female first-year students enrolling in STEM.

Programs to encourage girls to pursue a career in the aviation industry have been very successful. For instance, Girls Day, or the many initiatives taken by my university in cooperation with Airbus and Lufthansa Technik.”

Have you encountered any gender discrimination in your career?

“Oh, yes! When I tried to move from the documentation department to the engineering department at Airbus, I found that male graduates who had studied with me, but taken longer to finally graduate, were offered jobs in engineering whereas I was asked why I was not satisfied with a job in documentation which was more “suitable for a girl”.

When my children were small, some of my colleagues could not understand why I did not want to be a housewife. Fortunately, my boss and the CEO at that time had a different mindset and were happy for me to work in the design team.

Later, when I was working in academia and had started my PhD, a department head actually dared to ask me: “What the hell do you, as a woman, want to get a PhD for?” However, my university has a good culture and a policy to encourage women to seek a career in higher education and apply for faculty positions.”

As a female senior leader, why do you think it’s important for companies to address the gender gap?

“Many women have different competencies and preferences. Many of them are complementary to typical male strengths and weaknesses. The right mixture is ideal.

I think that the civil aviation industry is working hard to close the gender gap and increase diversity in teams and is definitely doing a much better job than the automotive industry.

Aviation has always attracted women because most jobs need brains rather than muscle. Even in the very early days, women became pilots and were very successful. Yet it is still rare to find women in management positions. Both Airbus and Lufthansa Technik have good programs for empowering women in leadership.

I believe that it’s important for the industry to continually attract more women to decision-making positions – particularly in commercial aviation where the passenger experience is increasingly important.

Women should be offered more hands-on experience with technical systems and manufacturing processes. Opportunities for hands-on internships are very rare, there should be more positions and women should be particularly encouraged to gain shop floor experience.”

What do you believe has been the key to your success?

“Passion, resilience, confidence and empathy.”

In your opinion, what is the biggest obstacle to women succeeding in the workplace?

“Prejudice: In my first job I was meeting with the chief designer at Airbus in Bremen to discuss the cockpit door design of the A330/A340. When I arrived at his office, he asked me if I wanted to be his secretary!

There were many situations when male bosses or colleagues would consider me unfit for certain technical tasks just because I was a woman – not because I lacked a certain qualification or experience. Fortunately, I always managed to find male supporters, who believed in my analytical and problem-solving skills, my perseverance and my solid technical knowledge.”

What would you say has been your career highlight to date?

“Being appointed full Professor of Systems Engineering in the Department of Automotive and Aeronautical Engineering at Hamburg University of Applied Sciences.”

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

“If you have to set priorities in life and decide between an available career path and private happiness, select the latter and then try to find new career opportunities compatible with private happiness/family life.”

“Most companies in the aeronautical industry are actively seeking to increase the number of women in engineering.”

Jutta Abulawi

What do you believe is the biggest challenge facing the aviation industry?

“Environmental issues: Media focus is prompting people to think about the carbon footprint of how they travel, how aircraft noise affects communities and the pollution caused by non-recyclable waste. I believe future generations are more likely to be sensitive to environmental issues.”

About Jutta Abulawi

Jutta Abulawi is Professor of Systems Engineering and CAD in the Department of Automotive and Aeronautical Engineering at Hamburg University of Applied Sciences (HAW Hamburg).

She holds a PhD in mechanical engineering and has worked in the aeronautical and the machine tool industry for 12 years. Jutta teaches engineering design and systems engineering at undergraduate and graduate levels in a project based approach and organizes international excursions and team projects for students.

Her research focuses on the practical application of methodical design and systems engineering approaches, including the use of parametric, reusable CAD models, software-based design assistants for additive manufacturing and systematic sketching and graphical modelling methods. In addition, she is engaged in the scholarship of teaching and learning in higher education.

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